*** Logfile started *** on Mon Jul 9 01:28:07 2007 [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:28:07] Join You have joined the channel #hbh (~haze d@rasterized--4FB7CDB5.static.dsl.dodo.com.au). [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:28:08] Topic The channel topic is "#hbh // Help-> ir c@rt.rmachine.net // Idle RPG Channel Needed // Gumbie: Message Richo ASAP.|| h ttp://www.avert.org/aofconsent.htm || [16:58] i would love to show you strayfe but unfortunatly my gf is at the door now | and frankly, "gir l" doesnt meet my requirements". [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:28:08] Topic The topic was set by Caity on 07/07/200 7 03:08:28 PM. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:28:08] Mode Channel modes: no messages from outside , topic protection, server reop, f, j [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:28:08] Created This channel was created on 10/30/2006 12:19:30 AM. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:31:06] I'll be back in 10 minutes. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:33:48] Join z3ro has joined this channel (~z3ro@ras terized--57E252C0.dyn.personainc.net). [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:33:56] Mode HellBound gives channel admin privilege s to z3ro. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:33:56] Mode HellBound gives channel operator privil eges to z3ro. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:33:59] yoO [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:35:06] ehhh [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:35:08] no1 live? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:35:18] yes [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:35:23] ahh [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:35:24] * strayfe is [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:35:26] :) [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:35:28] sup? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:35:37] doing AP government summer work [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:35:46] nice [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:35:46] Quit asdf has left this server (Ping timeout ). [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:35:47] yourself? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:35:51] just woke up [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:35:53] mmm [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:36:02] waking up at 10:30... [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:36:02] yea [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:36:04] * strayfe tuts [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:36:04] no [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:36:06] 11:30 [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:36:10] >.< [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:36:12] ah, whoops [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:36:14] :P [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:36:16] wrong z3ro [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:36:26] gah g2g [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:36:27] bbl [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:36:29] Part z3ro has left this channel. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:36:31] I thought I was talking to x3r0 for som e reason [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:36:33] dammit! [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:36:34] fuck [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:36:41] lol [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:36:43] lol [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:38:10] lasmot got this section of questions do ne.. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:38:15] *almost [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:41:59] done [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:43:42] Join asdf has joined this channel (woot@rast erized--D1F0D43A.cable.ubr02.newy.blueyonder.co.uk). [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:43:43] back [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:47:16] Join mikispag has joined this channel (~miki spag@rasterized--76906D44.retail.telecomitalia.it). [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:47:35] Part mikispag has left this channel (Bye!). [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:49:00] Join RoMeOx has joined this channel (~romeo. hax@7C7C1658.355826FD.636EB89.IP). [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:50:37] Quit root_op has left this server (Quit:). [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:51:38] wb [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:51:44] hey [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:51:58] ty [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:51:59] 'lo [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:52:45] speech is in 40 mins [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:53:06] :) good lol *waits* [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:53:18] whats it about today? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:53:45] EVIL WHITEHATZ [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:53:51] to put it simply [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:54:10] cool [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:54:51] why does it say nick RoMeO is in use :s [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:55:49] Nick asdf is now known as RoMe0. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:55:53] No it doesn't :P [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:55:56] Nick RoMe0 is now known as asdf. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:56:07] XD [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:56:14] No it doesn't :P [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:56:17] wtf [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:56:18] :s [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:56:21] lol [Mon Jul 9 2007] [01:56:28] RoMeO Nickname is already in use. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:01:17] 11:58 -!- RoMeO [~romeo.hax@7C7C1658.35 5826FD.636EB89.IP] [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:01:18] 11:58 -!- ircname : Romeo Haxxor [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:01:18] 11:58 -!- server : irc.zloche.net [Z loche IRC Server - RasterizedNet server] [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:01:18] 11:58 -!- End of WHOIS [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:01:18] [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:01:26] becasue it's already in use [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:01:36] just like the error message would indic ate [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:01:44] Funny how that works, eh? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:02:10] huh :s well why its not on the online l ist xD [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:02:22] anyways lol dont care no more XD *waits for lecture* [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:02:28] it's not in NAMES [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:02:38] all that means the person using it isn' t in the channel [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:02:54] ahh kk now i know what went wrong xD [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:03:06] * uniques wants to know where these random fil es appeared from, as in who the fuck had the audacity to download a 0-day and r un it. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:04:00] uniques: what did you run before they a ppeared? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:04:07] Absolutely fuck all. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:04:17] :/ [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:04:17] I didn't touch the box all day. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:04:21] crazy [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:04:34] I can't find shit in any logs. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:04:37] are you root on the box? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:04:40] no. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:04:43] oh [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:04:55] Well I am, but I don't run as root. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:05:06] I meant do you have root access. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:05:13] yes I do. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:05:18] But yea, logs can be modified [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:05:23] but I doubt you got owned. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:05:44] I am unfamiliar with typical "ownage" b ehaviours. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:05:45] BTW, I've had sync do that to more befo re. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:05:53] s/more/me/ [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:05:58] strayfe: get some coffee down you. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:06:06] I don't like coffee [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:06:09] hmmm [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:06:46] orange juice, well either way the behav iour is not nice and as it's a proprietary OS it makes me even more concerned. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:06:56] What OS is it? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:07:03] It's OSX. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:07:07] Ah. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:07:11] hehehe [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:07:15] maybe you did get owned then [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:07:21] OS X is like swiss cheese [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:07:27] Maybe I did. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:07:45] *everybody* has OS X 0day [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:08:04] Really, I see, how does it work? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:08:16] define:it? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:08:29] What does it exploit? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:08:44] It depends on the 0day [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:08:50] I have a few local kernel overflows [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:09:11] Join ReVoLT has joined this channel (~ReVoLT @roflmcwaffle.net). [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:09:11] Mode HellBound gives ReVoLT the permission t o talk. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:09:21] :/ [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:09:28] bastard wireless card [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:09:39] anyone used svn on linux? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:09:45] uniques: OS X is not as secure as Apple would like you to think. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:09:45] yes yes [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:09:52] ReVoLT: client or server? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:10:00] I've used the client [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:10:06] client [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:10:15] what do you need? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:10:20] yeah thats why they don't want to attra ct attention to it [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:10:26] well i don't actually know [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:10:34] i'm trying to get this wireless card wo rking [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:10:49] and svn figures into this how? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:10:50] i think i have to install the version f rom svn site? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:11:00] read the instructions [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:11:02] because the one with the kernel doesn't work [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:11:04] follow them [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:11:07] ... [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:11:11] ReVoLT: what uniques said [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:11:26] yes if there were instructions [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:11:32] Join lesserlights has joined this channel (~ lesserlig@rasterized--E18F029B.buffalo.res.rr.com). [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:11:33] one sec [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:11:59] What time be-eth the lecture at, Strayf e? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:12:08] uniques: what are the contents of the f iles? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:12:14] XPherior: in about 20 minuets [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:12:22] I'm gonna go do something, then I'll be back for that. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:12:27] k [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:12:28] haha that is where I completely fucked up, I just deleted them. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:12:28] I pushed work off an hour for you. xD [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:12:35] uniques: :/ [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:12:36] "This file contains new version4 firmwa re. v4 firmware is _not_ supported by the driver in mainline kernels. For v4 fi rmware you need latest bcm43xx development version (wireless-dev kernel tree). [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:12:38] " [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:12:53] whats the lecture about? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:13:12] ReVoLT: http://hellboundhackers.org/for um/viewthread.php?forum_id=19&thread_id=9052 [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:13:13] i would have looked on the forum [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:13:20] but like its down for maintenance [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:14:02] arg can't see it [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:14:09] bah [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:14:11] I'm not tooo worried, I have a few mach ines here, BUT I don't like paying $2K+ for a laptop in which I just install a free UNIX clone. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:14:13] not my day again [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:14:26] NOW HERE THIS! [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:14:27] I will be giving a speech on IRC about the anti-security movement, its goals, ideals and values, etc, etc. I will also be including a fairly lengthy segment about how the security industry has beco me greedy and corrupt. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:14:31] The speech will take place on HBH's IRC server. irc.rasterized.net #hbh will get you there. The speech will be on Sund ay, July 8th 2007 at 12:30 EDT (30 minuets past noon). Tell your friends about it, the more people that show up the better. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:14:34] Be there or be square. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:14:37] [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:14:48] lol [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:14:58] Do you take comments? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:14:59] lol [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:15:04] uniques: Sure [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:15:08] great. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:15:10] will it be a lecture then like Q&A? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:15:11] Now who owned me. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:15:21] ReVoLT: I supposer. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:15:33] if you're owned at all [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:15:47] Let's hope it's a bogus software bug. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:16:29] or you did something crazy with dd in a n under caffinated state [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:16:56] lol [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:17:06] Yeah well I don't think I did. Hmmm ma ybe. Unless Richo jumped on and played silly buggers when I was passed out. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:17:17] svn checkout just shows you what files are in the repository? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:17:25] no it checks them out [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:18:01] svn checkout $1 $2 [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:18:15] ReVoLT: svn help [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:18:28] yeah [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:18:36] just figured to try svn help checkout - .- [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:18:40] too tired for this [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:19:10] strayfe: 10 minutes left =D [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:19:16] asdf: yup [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:19:16] 11 [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:19:24] uniques: my clock says 10 [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:19:38] Sun Jul 8 12:21:00 EDT 2007 [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:19:41] 9 now actually [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:19:58] Join aVoid has joined this channel (~aVoid@r asterized--D9B43E13.client.mchsi.com). [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:20:08] 'lo [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:20:09] This better be entertaining, it starts at 2:30am and I have a pdoc appointment at 8:10 [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:20:12] lol [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:20:24] uniques: Well I assume you're watning t o ask questions? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:20:28] *wanting [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:20:44] Yes or probably moan a bit, coming from a "white hat" background. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:20:50] Back. :D [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:20:51] so anti-security movement is blackhat h ating on whitehats? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:21:13] Essentially. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:21:17] But there [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:21:19] It's tough girl-on-girl action, that's what it is! [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:21:22] lol [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:21:24] *tehre's good reason to do os. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:21:25] with muid? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:21:27] mid* [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:21:32] mud* [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:21:35] Define a whitehat. Define a blackhat. Please do this. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:21:43] But let me smoke [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:21:53] ReVoLT: I'll explain later. *Ceases sar casm* :P [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:21:54] uniques: Alrighty. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:22:04] xD [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:22:12] For the duration of my talk, the follow ing definitions will apply: [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:22:49] whitehat: works for the security indust ry, gets paid to legally hack in into systems, may also audit code for a compan y like CORE SDI, ISS, etc. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:22:51] Part You have left channel #hbh (Konversatio n terminated!). *** Logfile started *** on Mon Jul 9 02:23:06 2007 [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:23:06] Join You have joined the channel #hbh (~haze d@rasterized--4FB7CDB5.static.dsl.dodo.com.au). [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:23:06] Topic The channel topic is "#hbh // Help-> ir c@rt.rmachine.net // Idle RPG Channel Needed // Gumbie: Message Richo ASAP.|| h ttp://www.avert.org/aofconsent.htm || [16:58] i would love to show you strayfe but unfortunatly my gf is at the door now | and frankly, "gir l" doesnt meet my requirements". [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:23:06] Topic The topic was set by Caity on 07/07/200 7 03:08:28 PM. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:23:06] Mode Channel modes: no messages from outside , topic protection, server reop, f, j [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:23:06] Created This channel was created on 10/30/2006 12:19:30 AM. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:23:27] blackhat: someone who hacks for a hobby , does not post exploits publically, does not work for a security company [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:23:39] strayfe: do you want to +m? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:23:41] uniques: those definitions work for you ? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:23:43] uniques: nah [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:23:53] 5 minutes then by your clock, brb [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:24:01] yup [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:24:21] how are you hazed ? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:24:31] should have asked cheese to put it in n ews? or something? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:24:37] LOL [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:24:40] Cheese wouldn't have [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:24:41] like he'd support this [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:24:44] Roffles. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:24:44] hes a qhitehat =P [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:24:46] oh [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:24:48] *whitehat [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:24:54] bullshit is he? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:24:56] i mean [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:24:58] this goes against everything he stands for and believes in [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:25:04] then subliminal hacker group that he ha s [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:25:09] is rather [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:25:11] they're dead [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:25:12] gay? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:25:12] yeah im good strayfe. looking forward t o your speach [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:25:13] oh [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:25:13] lol [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:25:16] and they're lame [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:25:17] yeah gay [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:25:22] but it was [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:25:25] can't remember the work [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:25:30] contradictory [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:25:31] or w/e [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:25:37] they never did anything worht note [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:25:40] *worth note [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:25:49] heh [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:25:49] For fuck sake, I've got these neighbour s who have 2 kids.. ANNOYING AS FUCK [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:25:55] lol [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:25:58] running round in front garden spraying each other with hoses [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:25:58] STFU [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:26:03] five across the face [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:26:10] will sort them out [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:26:13] Haha [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:26:14] >_< [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:26:15] They're like .. 11 [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:26:18] and 8 [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:26:28] start them early and they'll learn :P [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:26:30] Give 'em some candy. o.o [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:26:32] 7 for the 11 year old, 6 for the 8 [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:26:32] nah j/k [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:26:35] Don't get arrested, though. xD [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:26:50] Haha [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:27:04] I could just shut my window.. but that' d involve me standing up and shit [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:27:08] "Hey little boy..Want some..Candy?! *Po ints to van*" xD [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:27:19] lol [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:27:23] haha [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:28:01] now? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:28:04] I kind of smell. :/ [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:28:08] *Needs a shower* [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:28:10] Kind of? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:28:12] lol [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:28:13] arg [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:28:15] Yeah. :P [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:28:24] apparently my wireless card is an ether net card :( [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:28:29] lmfao [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:28:30] fun [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:28:30] i know its not gonna work now [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:28:33] Haha. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:28:35] okay [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:28:40] The speech is starting now [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:28:44] :) [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:28:45] Okies. :3 [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:28:45] so shut up. :) [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:28:48] =D [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:28:49] *me listens* [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:28:49] * uniques blows trumpet [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:28:53] XD [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:28:54] Rofl. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:29:14] Okay, to quickly recap some definitions [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:29:21] For the duration of my talk, the follow ing definitions will apply: [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:29:30] whitehat: works for the security indust ry, gets paid to legally hack in into systems, may also audit code for a compan y like CORE SDI, ISS, etc. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:29:52] I'd like to amend that by saying they a lso post exploit code on sites like milw0rm.packetstorm/securityfocus/etc/etc [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:30:04] blackhat: someone who hacks for a hobby , does not post exploits publically, does not work for a security company [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:30:39] Now, the security industry is evil. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:30:54] They lie to their clients, the public a nd the media [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:30:59] blows [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:31:08] They don't care about computer security at all; they just care about money. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:31:16] They *want* the world to be insecure. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:31:19] i like money [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:31:20] haha [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:31:22] sounds like cheese [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:31:29] +m [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:31:32] After all, if the world was completly s ecure, they wouldn't have a job now would they? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:31:35] * hazed slaps you all. STFU [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:31:44] uniques: +m the chan and +v me [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:31:50] I was hoping we could avoid that by all being mature [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:31:52] Mode XPherior sets the channel mode to 'mode rated'. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:31:56] Mode XPherior gives strayfe the permission t o talk. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:32:01] ty [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:32:04] Welcome~ [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:32:30] So, as I was saying, if the world was p refectly secure, they're out a job. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:32:31] Join Caity has joined this channel (~caity_5 _4@rasterized--24A02B79.wp.shawcable.net). [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:32:31] Mode HellBound gives channel admin privilege s to Caity. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:32:31] Mode HellBound gives channel operator privil eges to Caity. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:32:39] They'd have no place in the world. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:32:55] Hello [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:33:09] They directly contribute to insecurity and they feed the script kiddies. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:33:44] Look at it logically. The whitehats pos t fully functional exploit code to widley known web sites, exploit code that ca n be downloaded by anyone and immedatly used to start owning boxen. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:34:11] If the whitehats would stop doing this, the script kiddies would have *far* less ammo then they used to. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:34:33] They'd eventually die off (alebit very slowly) [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:34:48] Now, the whitehats don't want this to h appen. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:34:51] So, Strayfe, how do we, the blackhats/u nknown hats, fight that? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:34:59] Because, again, they'd be out a job. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:35:10] XPherior: ask me questions after I'm do ne please. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:35:29] Alright. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:35:55] So, the whitehats perpetuate the cycle. They work to get the exploits into the hands of script kiddies, so a lame comp any get get a box or two owned, and then call a security company to get a pen t est done. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:36:09] And the security company walks away wit h a new bundel of cash [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:36:39] Eventually certain people got tired of this. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:36:41] Nick tele is now known as wtf_voice_plz. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:36:54] And they started what's known as the an ti-security movement. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:36:56] Nick wtf_voice_plz is now known as fucking_l ame. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:37:06] Nick asdf is now known as stfu-tele. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:37:07] Nick fucking_lame is now known as nbdy_cares _about_your_opinion. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:37:11] Part nbdy_cares_about_your_opinion has left this channel. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:37:16] What's the mode of no nick changes? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:37:23] +N [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:37:26] +N, isn't it? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:37:28] Mode XPherior sets channel mode +N [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:38:00] The idea here was to stop posting explo its, stop feeding the whitehats, and stop all communication between what was le ft of the hacker "underground" and the security industry. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:38:23] Bear in mind this was circa 2000ish, wh en there actualyl still was a very active "underground" [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:39:13] The anti-security movement was intended for people who took the moderate stance. People who didn't like how things wer e working out, and wanted to try to change things. Oddly enough, some whitehats even adopted it, seeing the truth behind it. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:40:01] There was another idea that also starte d however. It's a bit more widley known. pr0j3kt m4y3m was started by el8 in an attempt to destroy the security industry. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:40:15] To destroy it by force. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:40:39] TRhe iea was to own all the whitehats y ou could, drop their d0x, steal their 0days (if they had any) and rm their box. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:41:15] After all, if a whitehat can't protect their home LAN (which one would expect to be a bastion of security), who would hire them for a pen-test and expect them to do a good job? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:41:43] pr0j3kt m4yh3m was intended to shake th e confidence of the IT industry in the security industry. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:42:21] Eventually it moved away from el8 and s pread to #phrack@EFNet after #phrack@EFNet was taken over by a group calling th emselves the Phrack High Council [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:43:06] They were sort of a front group for pr0 j3kt m4yh3m, publically prompting it's values through their site phrack.ru (whi ch as down now as crg gave the domain to shiftee and xtx has to get it back) [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:43:31] jim jones picked up on pr0j3kt m4yh3m a nd spread it to the hack.co.za channel #darknet [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:44:23] later Jim Jones changed his nick to The _Unix_Terrorist, left #darknet and became affiliated with GOBBLES. Hew gave the famous "wolves among us" speech with GOBBLES and silvio at DEFCON X [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:45:12] For a speech that essentially made all the points I made earlier about whitehats, it was quite well recieved by the au dience, most of whom were in fact security professionals themselves. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:46:07] Today, in many sites like HTS, HBH, etc etc, blackhats are regarded as script kiddies, while it's cool to be a whtieha t and they're regarded as the "real hackers" [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:47:42] Why should we all become whitehats? Wha t has the security industry ever done to benefit the internet at large? They po st public exploits for the script kiddies, they spread lies and porpaganda abou t hackers, they've turned a fun hobby into a get rich quick scheme were if you ahve a CEH people think you're qualified, and they work to destroy the undergro und that gave birth to them. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:47:55] Look at the Honeynet Project for a mome nt. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:48:27] The idea is to set up networks of "rese arch honeypots" to entrap the blackhat community and "study" their motives and tactics. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:49:13] All the honeynet project catches are th e really dumb, lame script kiddies [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:49:25] the kinds who have trouble with ./confi gure && make [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:49:27] Join s0m3nak3dguy has joined this channel (~ bryce@37DB4EBD.168C3673.8D60AFAA.IP). [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:50:14] Really, who else goes around mass brute forcing SSH logins or scanning /8's and /16's for vulns that are 3 or 4 years o ld? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:50:35] they catch kids who still use that old rpcstatd overflow FFS [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:51:04] They never produce anything worth readi ng and yet the beg for funding and complain when they can't get it. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:51:11] Join aaaaa has joined this channel (~aaaa@54 A05AB5.5E213381.C70DE7BC.IP). [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:51:24] Hmm, I wonder why? It's such a feat to catch botnet hearders from the .ro or .br. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:52:04] Take a look at Phrack magazine really q uick. While it is getting better, for a while every article in an issue was wri tten by a corporate whitehat. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:52:23] Phrack founded itself upon the principl es that it was "for hackers by hackers" [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:53:24] How do things like sebek fit into that category? sebek is intended to spy on hackers, and while it can be subverted to be a rootkit in the traditional sense of the word, there are better ones avali ble. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:53:51] Join |Zero|H|I|T| has joined this channel (~ zerohacks@A96E3715.9FAB2AD4.9C3205B0.IP). [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:54:00] But yea, sebek was the the honeynet pro ject's idea to spy on the hackers they trap. Too bad it was easy to detect for any one who had a small understanding of computers. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:54:41] It hooked the read and write syscalls, and replaed them with it's own versions. It also messed up the distance between them and it was easy to write a small C program to detect sebek. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:54:51] So mcuh for their "undetectable" soluti on. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:55:58] The worst are the people that were "und erground" hackers at one time and then turned their backs on the scene and thei r friends and sold out to the corporate side [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:56:20] They work against people who are exactl y like they are. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:56:44] They decry people who illegaly enter sy stems when a few short years ago they were doing exactly the same thing. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:57:42] They work against their former friends. They ruin perfectly good exploits by thoughtlessly posting them on Full-Disclo sure in an attempt to make a name for themselves. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:58:00] Join DJDD has joined this channel (~1@raster ized--5DC18ED.dhcp.mtgm.al.charter.com). [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:58:01] [DJDD] All bow to the mighty DJ!!! [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:58:01] Mode HellBound gives channel admin privilege s to DJDD. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:58:01] Mode HellBound gives channel operator privil eges to DJDD. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:58:09] They post crappy code in the public dom ain in an attemot to make a name for themselves. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:58:25] what tehy used to do for free they put a price tag on. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:58:35] they sold their souls for money. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:59:12] The security industry is the single big gest fear mongering market on the planet. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:59:31] They use fear of hackers to motivate pe ople to buy their services and products. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [02:59:57] Now, alot of the bigger companies like Symantec, CORE SDI, ISS, etc etc have active 0day research and developmetn team s [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:00:29] they have teams of highly skilled indiv iduals who audit ccode for a living, finding vulns in popular applications tha t are in the public domain. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:00:50] Things like Apache, OpenSSH, the Linux kernel, IIS, etc etc [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:01:09] They then use these exploits in what sp ecial "0day penetration tests" [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:02:08] After they own the clients network they impress upon them the fact that it was very easy to do so and that there are 0 day exploits activley circulating amongst the baclkhats, and they could jsut as eaisley own the network. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:02:28] They charge a huge amount of money for 0days tests, usually at least $15,000 [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:02:56] When it comes time for their mitigation report, they have to offer a solution besides "don't use the vuln service" [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:03:24] Usually it's along the lines of "buy th is product of ours, for a mere $20,000 you can be completly portected" [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:04:24] okay...hmmm [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:04:36] Then they go a publish a new vulneraili ty, come back and tell the client "oh yes, a new exploit was discovered and is public, now you need to pay for a service upgrade." [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:04:57] It all comes back to the fact that they don't want secure computers. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:05:06] They thrive on a state of insecurity an d fear. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:05:34] Every new major exploit (recently safar i and IE exploits) and very new worm or virus undergoes the predicatble media h ype [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:05:50] they just care about the quarterly retu rn. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:05:58] the share holders [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:06:08] and the vacation homes of their CEO [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:06:38] Why should you help those who don't hel p you? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:06:45] Why help those who want to destroy you? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:07:13] When can we speak/respond? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:07:17] Why help those who would love to use yo u as an example to strip up media hype to drive up their quarterly gains? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:07:25] whatever, go now [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:07:31] Okay nice talk. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:07:37] I'm mostly done. go ahead and -m [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:07:43] I have a few more points but they can w ait [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:07:47] Mode uniques sets the channel mode to 'unmod erated'. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:08:00] i have a few questions [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:08:03] *claps* bravo *claps* :) [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:08:11] Nice speach <3 [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:08:15] Excellent. :3 [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:08:18] but i've forgotten them now lol [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:08:19] ah [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:08:22] ReVoLT: go ahead [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:08:25] i wrote down a few. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:08:26] Haha. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:08:33] <|Zero|H|I|T|> Cool [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:08:34] thanks man. going well. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:08:41] hasn't the phrack magazine ended? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:08:50] no [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:08:58] phrack 64 was just released recently [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:09:10] ah ok [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:09:17] and project mayhem [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:09:22] strayfe, is project mayhem still active ? (cba to type it out with numbers and shit) [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:09:24] did they get aload of whitehats? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:09:40] yes and yes [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:10:07] uniques, do -N .. I need to change my n ick [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:10:24] Mode XPherior sets channel mode -N [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:10:29] Nick stfu-tele is now known as asdf. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:10:30] ty [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:10:33] Welcome. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:10:44] Did anybody log that? Should post it as an article on HBH and EG [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:10:53] Yeah. I'll put it on HBH now. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:10:56] Unless there's more. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:11:16] XPherior: nah, it's mostly done [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:11:28] Alrighty. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:11:37] and sebek [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:11:48] what about it? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:11:54] when you said it changed the space betw een the hooked functions [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:12:06] was it like one had a high address [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:12:11] uh [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:12:12] it moved them farther apart [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:12:13] wait no [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:12:14] i c [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:12:45] Quit RoMeOx has left this server (Ping timeo ut). [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:12:47] like address wise? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:13:09] 1 more question [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:13:14] yes [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:13:16] and go ahead [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:13:24] you said the underground was active at like ~2000 [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:13:28] isn't it very active now? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:13:39] and if not..do you know why? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:13:40] not compared to what it once was [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:13:48] because of the whitehats. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:13:57] sites like HBH tell people it's evil to go actually hack [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:14:07] and they listen and never develop and r eal skills. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:14:20] i c [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:14:30] so could you name some groups t hat were active in the underground ~2000 and some active currently, for compari son? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:14:39] They never delve down into the lower le vels of programming and learn about things like adjacent memory overflows, and innovate new techniques [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:15:02] Join mozzer has joined this channel (~Simon@ 1DED0C63.81AFEDDD.5E01AE9E.IP). [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:15:22] lesserlights: active in 2000: [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:15:25] Nick Caity is now known as Caity[afk]. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:15:29] have I missed newtype? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:15:32] yes [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:15:34] mozzer: yes [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:15:35] I just finished [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:15:39] you gay [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:15:46] it was logged [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:15:50] the logs will be posted soon [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:15:51] could of waited for the tennis to end [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:15:57] :/ [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:15:59] sorry [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:16:00] hahahahaha [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:16:13] lol [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:16:19] can't wait to see logs [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:16:25] ill send some to you now [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:16:26] lol [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:16:32] lesserlights: but groups like el8, dikl ine, whiteh8, MSNetwork and GOBBLES are not around anymore [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:16:36] or at least not active [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:16:53] Just a sec. :3 [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:17:19] h0no PHC and ZF0 are active [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:17:49] Logs: http://hellboundhackers.org/forum /viewthread.php?forum_id=19&thread_id=9052#74301 [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:17:54] I see, and I've personally note d most "hacking" groups of this generation are oriented towards web security an d don't encourage offensive action. [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:17:56] But for those of you that this made sen se to, how can you get involved? [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:18:05] simple [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:18:10] practce what you preach [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:18:29] weather it's just not positng exploits/ info/techniques or actually going out there and hacking whitehats [Mon Jul 9 2007] [03:19:19] i've always wanted to audit software..b ut like i always think i won't find anything and it kinda demotivates me